Record label owner, singer, writer, dreamer. Lee Dorrian is an all around renaissance man and, in my opinion, a legend in the truest sense of the word. For over 20 years, Lee Dorrian fronted Cathedral who changed the face of metal and would go on to inspire countless bands. These days, Dorian keeps busy running his record label, Rise Above Records, as well as fronting his latest band With The Dead.
I recently spoke with Lee and he was every bit the gentleman and just all around awesome person to talk to that you’d think he would be. Lee and I spoke about his conflicted feelings about Cathedral’s Ethereal Mirror album, coming out of retirement to front With the Dead, and all else in between. It was really great connecting and getting to know Lee Dorrian and I hope you will enjoy it as well. Cheers!
Lee, thanks so much for taking the time to do this interview. How are you?
Don, thank you. I’m fine, thank you. Just doing a few interviews so I’m relaxed here at home getting into it.
=====================================================
So I’m excited to talk to you about your new band, With The Dead. This band totally came out of nowhere for me. There was no like, “Lee Dorrian’s Back” announcement or anything. It was like, “Oh! A new band… with Lee Dorrian in it!”
[laughs] Well, I didn’t want it to be like that. I didn’t want it to be some big comeback thing.
=====================================================
What can you tell me about the band and how did it all come together?
It wasn’t formed like how guys normally get together. I’ve known Mark Greening and Tim Bagshaw for years with their connection with Electric Wizard. I’ve always stayed in touch with Tim over the years because he’s a really cool guy. Mark had this whole situation with Electric Wizard that fell through and he was left in no man’s land and wanted to do some music again. Him and Tim had been in touch with each other about getting something together. Tim’s in another band called Serpentine Path in the states. He suggested that they get together and jam to see what might come of it. They asked me if Rise Above would be interested in recording or releasing something with them and I said of course. Tim started sending me some songs that he had been working on on a 4 track and I thought that they were actually really cool. I just thought they sounded fresh, straight from the gut, and raw. I told them that definitely we were going to release something on the label. Tim came over and jammed with Mark for about four or five days and then they went into the studio and recorded all the tracks that they had come up with. I went down to see them while Tim was over and listened to the stuff but I didn’t think it sounded good enough to be released. They asked me to do vocals on the record and at first I was a bit apprehensive.
=====================================================
Why the apprehension?
Because having left Cathedral after 20 odd years and having to dedicate more and more time to the label as time goes on, I didn’t really feel like I had enough time to commit to being in a full time band. I didn’t want to go through the ordeals and dramas. I kind of left all that behind when Cathedral ended so there was a lot of hesitancy from me initially. I started to get more and more warmed to the idea and I started thinking about ideas for the way I was going to approach the songs if I was going to be in the band. Some lyrical ideas were running around in my head and I got more into the idea of doing it. All this shit was going on in my personal life and I had so much stuff built up inside of me but nowhere to vent all this angst that had built up inside me.
=====================================================
Not having a band to exercise those demons so to say must have really started to weigh on you.
That’s one of the main things I did miss about being in a band. If you had any stuff bubbling up inside of you, you could get it out and express it in the music you were releasing. I had the luxury of doing that for 20 odd years being in the bands that I was in but that was one element that I missed that had kind of gone. I thought that this was just going to be a perfect opportunity to have this band as a vehicle to do that. I thought the music was so crushing that it would be a cool thing to be involved in. Tim came back here in March and went into the studio in North London and recorded everything from scratch. Had 3 or 4 rehearsals before going into the studio and there was a whole new energy to them. I said from the beginning that if I was going to be involved in this that the main priority was to make the most brutal, uncompromising record we could possibly make. We were so focused and determined to make that happen and I think that’s what did happen. We wanted to keep it as simplistic, minimal, raw, and aggressive as possible so we didn’t spend much time tidying up mistakes or cleaning up sounds. We just wanted it to be as raw and primitive sounding as it could be.
What I loved about this album because it did sound so different. I don’t mean this in any disrespect but when you’re an artist that has been around a while, you get used to how that artist or band sounds and you always kind of know what to expect. It was really cool to hear you doing something I wasn’t expecting to hear.
Absolutely. The thing is like you said earlier, I think Cathedral became a band that, although we were unpredictable we almost became predictably unpredictable [laughs]. It just got to the point where I didn’t think we could go any further with it really and that’s why we ended almost the way we started with the last album we recorded. Again, I suppose like you said, I kept this band quite close to my chest until it was recorded and finished and I felt happy with it. I didn’t want to start blabbing off about having this killer new band and that it was my big comeback or something. I don’t see it as that really. It’s much more personal than that. The main thing is that when it’s ready to be released that you’re 100% happy with it. I didn’t want to start telling people about it until that was the case. Fortunately, it didn’t take much work and it was done really fast.
=====================================================
How long did it take to record the album?
The vocals were recorded in two hours, first take without hardly any rehearsals whatsoever. The backing tracks were done in about 5 or 6 days so there’s a raw, lively edge to it.
=====================================================
I loved how you said that with Cathedral that you felt you had almost exhausted the possibilities. With that being said, is it safe to say that Cathedral has really been put to rest for good?
Oh yeah. Cathedral is over and it was over 3 years ago. There’s no turning back. I don’t believe in turning back.
=====================================================
That’s good to hear because you know in these days, bands are always saying, “We’re going away” and they never really do. KISS is still on their farewell tour I think.
[laughs] I’ve never given any indication otherwise unless the original Black Sabbath with Bill Ward invited us to go and tour with them. Maybe that would be a different story but that’s not going to happen is it? We were together for such a long time. What’s the point of going away for four years and coming back again when you’ve already done it for 23 years and called it a day? I don’t really see why bands do that. People had plenty of opportunities to experience us while we were there. It’s not like we were around 2 or 3 years. We were around for two decades. I’m not a teenager any more either. If Cathedral was going to come back in say like five or ten years I’d be in my 50’s and that just wouldn’t feel right [laughs]. I mean, if we had broken up in ’95 and reformed in say 2005 than it would’ve made sense but to break up in 2002 or so and come back in 2015 would just be a bit stupid really. We left on a note that we felt comfortable with. Why would you want to mess that up? To me, the legacy of the band is more important that any revived idea or interest in the band that might suddenly come around because you’re not around anymore.
=====================================================
Do you look at some bands out there and believe that there is such a thing as overstaying your welcome?
I absolutely do think that. If you were once a vital band, creative, and really doing amazing records and that’s stopped and now you’re just putting out records purely for the sake of putting out records because you’ve got nothing else better to do than that’s totally up to the band and themselves. I think it’s time for you to move on and do something else with your life and hopefully try and leave some kind of legacy that’s intact and not full of compromise.
=====================================================
You’ve had Rise Above Records since 1988 and the bands that you sign have a certain kind of sound. Were you kind of surprised at any point that this whole 60s/70s inspired occult/psych rock thing has had somewhat of a renaissance?
I don’t really consider this music to be retro or anything like that. I consider it to be more classic and a continuation of good rock music. I don’t consider it to be stoking the past really. I think it’s just good rock music that is continued to be made. Just because you don’t follow modern production techniques or you don’t throw anything contemporary into the pot it doesn’t mean to say that’s not valid music. The first and foremost thing about music is whether it’s got soul or not. If it’s good music that’s all it is. It’s rock music you’re talking about. It’s bass, drums, and guitar. I don’t understand why people are obsessed with it being something new or something that hasn’t been done. Everyone’s waiting for the new punk rock or the new mod this or the new something. I just don’t really see the urgency for that to happen. I think people are just sitting around tapping their toes waiting for that big thing to come along. What people need to do is just make good music.
=====================================================
This is the music I grew up listening to so I’m hearing a lot of these younger bands not conforming to what the norm of metal music is these days. They’re going back to the roots from when we were younger and finding the real music, the real heart of heavy music.
And through that they’ll find themselves as well. I’ve never been one for bands who blatantly try to copy a certain period or era. To be inspired by an era of rock music where there was less restrictions and it was more free thinking, I think that’s the main part of the more classic sounding bands that I appreciate more than anything else really. With more bands that are around now, like I said, there are no two people the same on this planet so why try and be like someone else has already been before? Mimicking something I find quite sad. I’m not into trying to mimic things. I just think picking up on the spirit of something and the freedom and the vibe of it and putting yourself into it is what it’s all about. Keep it timeless.
=====================================================
You get to hear a lot of bands that are submitting music to your label. Is it easy for you to kind of separate the bands that are doing music with sincerity from the ones that are doing it to hop on a trend?
I wouldn’t pick up a band that I thought was completely fake or just doing it to be popular. I think generally, I can tell almost by the band’s name, some of their song titles, how they represent themselves with the artwork, or the photographs, you can kind of tell. There could be two bands who on the surface are exactly the same but it could be something about one of those two bands that has a special element that the other doesn’t have. It’s hard to pinpoint what that is but I know it when I hear a band. I just have a good instinct for bands that are right for the label. There’s a lot of great bands that I enjoy that I just don’t think are right for the label at the same time.
=====================================================
Are there any current bands right now that are really blowing you away?
The main one is a band we just signed called Beastmaker. They’re from Fresno, CA. They’re a three piece band and, again, I don’t think that they’re doing anything really new but they’ve got a vibe about them that gets it. They’ve just got that spirit in them that’s hard to buy. You can’t just have that just appear. You have to feel it and they’re a band that’s got that. They kind of remind me of Pentagram, Witchfinder General, and dare I say elements of Uncle Acid. That kind of vibe but they’re doing it very much their own way with their own spirit like we were talking about.
=====================================================
One of the Cathedral albums that hit me the most was the Ethereal Mirror. That album is a real important album to me. As a young person that album really changed my perspective on metal music and 20 something years later I still gravitate to that album. When you were making that album, did you know have any idea as to how influential or how special that album would end up being to so many people?
Thank you. There was a lot of mixed emotions making that record because it was kind of a horrible experience making it. It should’ve been the best time in the world because we were recording it in Richard Branson’s studio where Nevermind the Bollocks was recorded. It was kind of a big step up from Forest of Equilibrium. Musically it was a lot more defined and a lot more confident and advanced. We had no idea that we were making something that would be considered a classic all these years later. In fact, we had such a bad experience recording it, we couldn’t listen to it ourselves for quite some time. I couldn’t listen to it for years. When we were recording it, it didn’t feel like it was as fun as it could’ve been. We were a bit tormented by it actually. While our heads were still very much in the underground scene and there we were signing to a major label. That’s not really the best way to stay underground [laughs]. I guess we had all these determined ideas to keep the record raw and wanted to make the heaviest record on a major label kind of stuff. We suddenly realized that a lot of our ideas were taken away from us. We just felt like we weren’t in control of it anymore. That’s kind of a hard experience. Just playing it back and listening to the guitar sounds was hard. We kind of preferred the guitar sounds we were getting in our basement studio a few weeks before for the rough demos than did for something that cost something like $50,000.00. On the other hand, there are songs on that album like “Fountain of Innocence”, “Midnight Mountain”, “Enter the Worms”, “Ride”, and “Grim Luxuria” that are all really well constructed songs. Despite all the problems we had with the producer, he did a good job of getting the best out of us and the songs were recorded really well. I don’t look back on that record with frowns like I used to. I look back on it now and I feel like it’s a pretty cool record that we did.
When that album came out I was at a crossroads with metal music and it really changed me. Metal was changing, nu metal was coming around, and this album really took me down a whole other path and steered me away from that other garbage.
[laughs] Oh wow. Thank you. That’s quite cool. Well, we always made a conscious effort to acknowledge those bands that were lesser known. Bands from a bygone age that we considered to be quite innovative and original, not necessarily for people to become stuck in the past but just to remind people that there was a time when music was quite organic, natural, and free thinking. I think by the early 90’s a lot of music had become really stiff and kind of regimented. A lot of macho elements became prominent in metal. Guys with like heavily tattooed muscular arms and torsos folding their arms and frowning in photographs. I just thought it became quite boring with people trying to prove how tough they were.
=====================================================
I just thought it was weird that the very people who used to pick on me and make fun of me for liking metal music were now metal bands.
Yeah. Jocks [laughs].
=====================================================
Lee, at what point did you know that you wanted to be a musician?
Well, I never really wanted to be a musician. It wasn’t even really on my radar of things to do. I never really had any ambition to be in a band really. I used to do a fanzine and I used to be like the local promoter. I was a follower of Napalm Death before I joined them. I used to go to all their shows. I did get asked to join a band before them called Icons of Filth on the bass. They were my favorite band when I was like 16 or 17 so I was over the moon that they asked me to join them. They lived in Wales and I couldn’t play anything. They said, “Just buy a bass and we’ll come down and teach you the songs.” [laughs] So I spent a couple of months working door to door jobs trying to make some money and I finally made enough to buy a bass. The band then just fell apart and then six or seven months later Napalm Death asked me to join because Nik Bullen had left and I said yeah, why not [laughs]. Then a year after that there was all this stuff about Napalm Death all over the news, TV, and music magazines and I was like, “What the fuck is going on?”
=====================================================
What was the first concert you ever attended?
The first proper concert I ever went to where I had a ticket and went in was a band called the Angelic Upstarts. Before that, I had see bands play at the workingman’s club on a Saturday night or at the carnival but that was the first grown up gig I went to. That was in 1980 when I was like 12 or 13 years old probably. The Angelic Upstarts were like a punk band; an Oi! band. Another band was on that bill called Infa Riot and a band from Coventry called Criminal Class. It was a kind of horrific gig. There was so much violence and it was out of control. The singer, Mensi, just kept having mental breakdowns in between every song and kept telling the audience to stop fighting. It was quite terrifying actually [laughs]. A few days after that I went to see a female singer called Hazel O’Connor who did a film called Breaking Glass which was out at the time. I went to see her and a few days after that I went to see The Stranglers and that was an amazing show. Of those three that’s the one that stuck with me more.
=====================================================
What kind of impact did it have on you?
Well, I was into was music when I was a kid. I was an only child and moved around from school to school so I spent a lot of time by myself listening to music. Going to see bands live was like some fucking amazing experience that you couldn’t put to words. It was just the greatest thing in the world. I didn’t want to do anything else but go see bands play live.
=====================================================
What is one metal album that you feel that everyone should own?
That would be the first Sabbath album. Isn’t it really? It’s an obvious answer but it’s a benchmark record.
=====================================================
If you could play in one band for just one night who would it be?
One band for one night. I would have to say Comus. They’re an English dark folk band. They’re amazing.
=====================================================
What is the most un-metal thing about you?
Hm. I’m a fan of Carly Simon’s early records. If that’s not un-metal than I don’t know what is [laughs].
=====================================================
Looking back on your career is there anything you would’ve done differently?
There’s a few things that we did that I’d rather we didn’t do but they’re all part of the story so no. You can’t really turn back and say, “I wish I would’ve done this or that differently.” There was a time when Cathedral was doing things like “Midnight Mountain” video to prove a point against the record company and it ended up people thought we were taking a piss when actually there was quite a serious statement being made behind it. People didn’t really get it. There were certain periods that weren’t so great in the band. There were ups and downs but they’re all part of the story. I don’t think i’d change a thing.
=====================================================
Lee, thank you again for doing this interview. It’s been a real pleasure talking to you.
No worries, Don. I wish we could talk a bit longer. It’s always nice talking to you. All the best to you. Cheers!
About The Author
